I. Interview:
why go to Iraq?
Pierre Simon, head of communications, interviews Hubert
Debbasch, the company CEO, about the situation in Iraq and his initiative to begin
offering tours (date of the interview: 19 August 2008).
Pierre Simon: Hubert Debbasch, you went to Iraq during the summer. Why exactly did
you go?
Hubert Debbasch: It's hard to give a quick answer to that question, so maybe we
should just stick to the essentials. For many years now, Terre Entière has been
developing relations with Iraq specialists in France. I myself organised a circuit
in Bagdad and the major surrounding archaeological sites in 1999. Since then, in
the light of circumstances that I don't need to go into here, there has been absolutely
no point in trying to set up any kind of project. Following a thorough investigation
and numerous consultations, I realised that it was now time to go out there again
to gain a clearer understanding of the current situation and seriously envisage
the possibility of organising trips wherever and whenever possible.
Pierre Simon: We're talking about Iraq, but your trip and the tours you are proposing
only take place in Kurdistan. Can we really say that these are trips to Iraq? Might
not your clients be disappointed at not visiting the country's major archaeological
sites?
Hubert Debbasch: As you know, Iraqi Kurdistan is an integral part of the country.
The Kurds who live in Iraq are Iraqis! Since 1991, Kurdistan has been an autonomous
province and Saddam Hussein lost all control over the region as of that time. Even
overflying the region was strictly prohibited. From then on, the Kurds – who had
suffered often atrocious repression – began to breathe more freely.
Pierre Simon: Did the American intervention of 2003 affect the province of Kurdistan?
How was this felt and what is the current situation in this region of Iraq? What
is the perception on the ground?
Hubert Debbasch: The purpose of the United States' intervention was to reach the
power bases under the control of Saddam Hussein and his entourage, but also all
centres of resistance. It struck all areas of Iraq outside Kurdistan. This province
is continuing a movement of development and economic growth that began in 1991 and
which was not even interrupted during the civil war (Ed.: from 1994 to 1998 this
pitted the partisans of the two main Kurdish Iraqi political parties, the PDK and
the UPK, against each other). On the whole, the American intervention is seen very
positively by the Kurds. It has had a certain number of painful consequences, especially
for the refugees, about whom I will say more later, but the Americans are not seen
in a bad light! In the province, you feel safe everywhere, but there are clear signs
of distress that show that the war is not far away on the other side of the border.
Pierre Simon: You talk of painful consequences and mention the war. Why would there
be greater consequences today than in 2003 when there was great hope for calm, even
outside Kurdistan?
Hubert Debbasch: On the ground, in every corner of the province, I felt a very real
happiness, especially among the youngest who had not experienced the distress I
mentioned. But everywhere I went, I also felt a degree of suffering among all those
Iraqis who – sometimes very recently – came to seek refuge and peace in Kurdistan.
They found that peace and usually received a warm welcome, but most of them can
see no future: considerable economic problems are created by this mass influx and
it is very hard, especially for the minorities, to find work and a place in society.
There is also the terrible suffering and solitude of all those who took refuge in
Kurdistan after losing most of those close to them, killed in and around Baghdad,
or even in Kirkuk or Mosul. Some of their family members stayed behind and are in
great danger. They sometimes go to visit them without knowing if they'll find them,
or are wracked by uncertainty over what kind of risks they run by leaving Kurdistan.
Pierre Simon: You mentioned the minorities. We often hear talk of the Christian population
of Iraq? Are they one of these minorities, and are there others?
Hubert Debbasch: The Christians are of course among these minorities. In Kurdistan
the Christian presence creates a paradox. Before the American intervention, a large
number of Christians, usually Kurds, were living in the autonomous province. In
the past few years, an influx of Arab Christian refugees has significantly swollen
the proportion of Christians living in Kurdistan, whereas the Christians living
in the rest of Iraq are rapidly disappearing in the face of the threat from radical
Islam. The paradox lies both in the fact that the Christians, while being more numerous,
remain a minority and are usually treated as such, but also in the fact that many
Christians are there simply in transit, seeking exile further away in the Near-East,
Europe, or elsewhere, in order to find a long-term solution for their families.
But these minorities comprise many other populations: this is the case of Muslim
Arabs who wish to have nothing to do with radical Islam and its intolerance, or
for whom the daily and often disastrous consequences of the American intervention
mean that they can no longer live in their home regions. Moreover, Kurdistan has
always consisted of minorities whose original culture ruled out any deep-rooted
identification with the Kurdish identity or with the major tendencies of the political
authorities. This is for example the case of the Yazidi, whom our travellers will
be meeting.
Pierre Simon: What about the Jews? Did you meet any during your trip?
Hubert Debbasch: The situation of the Jews in Iraq, although who knows how many
are left, is truly dramatic. After the creation of Israel in 1948, the new State
campaigned strongly to encourage Iraqi Jews to move to the new country. In just
a few years (1949-1952), more than 120,000 Jews made alyah. Neither the British
nor the Americans approved of this departure, but there was virtually nothing they
could do to stop it. After the 1958 revolution, there was almost a complete reversal
of the situation and efforts began to force the Jews to leave Iraq. Once Saddam
Hussein seized power, the Jews still present in Iraq were in reality given no choice.
Leave or disappear. There can be no more than just a few individuals still living
in the Iraqi capital. Unfortunately I was unable to meet a single Jew, but I did
see some extremely moving signs of the past presence of Jewish communities. I am
thinking in particular of the village of Alkush, the birthplace of Nahum, and the
synagogue surrounding the tomb of the prophet.
Pierre Simon: So Terre Entière is now proposing tours to Iraq. Is this really sensible?
What do you think about the advice for travellers to Iraq on the website of the
French Ministry of Foreign Affairs?
Hubert Debbasch: No, it is not sensible at the moment to go just anywhere in Iraq.
Yes, it is possible, interesting, important and enjoyable to go to Iraq in complete
safety today, provided that you follow a certain number of simple rules: only go
to places that are not under threat, prepare each stage of the tour in extremely
close cooperation with the civil and religious authorities, stay in permanent contact
with people living locally and be accompanied by them whenever travelling. With
regard to the advice for travellers, I spent two hours talking to Doctor Frédéric
Tissot, France's representative in Erbil (Ed.: Erbil is the capital of Kurdistan).
He was justifiably proud of having managed to get Iraq downgraded from red to orange
in the foreign ministry's recommendations! He is a man who is very familiar with
the country, much appreciated on the ground and very happy to see initiatives that
help the province to develop. I must however make one thing perfectly clear. Notwithstanding
the great respect I have for Mr Tissot and the functions he performs, there is no
question of expecting the slightest backing from him for our initiatives. Terre
Entière assumes full and sole responsibility for these new tours.
Pierre Simon: By offering Christmas in Iraq at the end of December 2008, and cultural
tours in 2009, are you not worried that this could create a degree of confusion?
What is the real difference between the pilgrimage offered to Christians and a cultural
tour?
Hubert Debbasch: All those already familiar with Terre Entière know that we are
particularly vigilant: this distinction comes naturally because we specialise in
both Christian pilgrimages and cultural tours. I have never heard any of our travellers,
whether atheist, agnostic or practising any other religion complain about the tone
of our cultural tours! However, it is clear that we have made the choice of relying
in our friends, who are now partners, in the Major Seminary of the Chaldean Patriarchate
of Babylon. I can only thank them warmly. Without them it would have been extremely
difficult to set up a project such as this. We will be the first to organise trips
in Iraq and the state of the accommodation infrastructure in the various towns in
Kurdistan we will be visiting means that we will have to rely on resources other
than traditional hotels.
Pierre Simon: Will you be going along?
Hubert Debbasch: I am delighted to be accompanying the Christmas in Iraq tour. The
two circuits in 2009 will be in the company of Catherine Sudre, an excellent lecturer
who already accompanies many of the circuits we organise. We have limited the size
of each tour party to twenty (Ed.: this is the maximum size of the party for all
cultural trips organised by Terre Entière), including for Christmas. I can only
regret that the price of each of these trips is so high. Air fares remain very high
owing to an obvious lack of competition. Any hotels that we may have to use are
sometimes more expensive than in the centre of Paris.
Pierre Simon: What about insurance?
Hubert Debbasch: AXA, our insurance company, has been notified of this initiative.
The tours to Iraq will be covered like any other, with no extra cost for this destination.
Pierre Simon: The Italian press announced that Iraqi seminarists were coming to Prague
and Rome. Was Terre Entière informed of this visit?
Hubert Debbasch: We are fully aware because we organised this exceptional visit.
25 priests and young seminarists from all around Iraq will be coming to spend nearly
three weeks in Europe. I was with them in Rome just a few days ago. They have now
returned home, overjoyed at this break which they all sorely needed after so many
terrible years. After too many attacks, the Grand Seminary of Baghdad, with whom
we are partners, sought exile in Erbil. It is there that our groups will stay for
a large part of the trip.
Pierre Simon: The programmes now published on the website and shortly to be published
in brochures are not presented in the same way as usual. They are not even programmes.
Will you be releasing more details soon?
Hubert Debbasch: We will give some additional explanations to people asking to sign
up, once we have understood their motivations. But Kurdistan is not that big. Just
by looking at the photos we have placed on-line on our website, everyone can get
an idea of the sites visited, their splendour and the very great interest they represent.
Pierre Simon: When is the next encounter with Iraq?
Hubert Debbasch: On 22 December with 20 people who have signed up to celebrate Christmas
with our Christian friends singing in Aramaic, the language of Christ. But for many
of us at Terre Entière, Iraq is now with us every day. This destination is on our
programme because we love the country dearly and we believe in its future.
NEW PRESS RELEASE DATED 20 SEPTEMBER 2008
"Since the announcement of our trips to Iraqi Kurdistan,
a large number of newspapers, television and radio stations around the world have
talked extensively about our initiative. Most journalists clearly understood the
meaning and the intention of our tours and, each in their own way, gave their own
interpretation. I would like to thank all the journalists who contacted Terre Entière
for clarification so that they could understand our projects better and present
them more clearly.
Inevitably, some journalists who were less attentive
to what we were actually saying and more interested in sensationalism than in the
finely nuanced reality of a country such as Iraq and its autonomous province of
Kurdistan, preferred to present our journeys as exploits or challenges, comparing
them with or associating them with circuits to other destinations that really are
dangerous. We understand and readily excuse this attitude which probably arouses
greater interest among a certain number of readers than simply describing our humble
and prudent tours to Iraq. We know full well that mentioning "Iraq" as a destination
is nothing if not exciting but we are programming Iraqi Kurdistan having taken all
steps to ensure the comfort and safety of our clients. We do however wish to make
it perfectly clear that we reject any assimilation of our projects with any hazardous,
provocative or irresponsible undertaking. Our trips to Iraqi Kurdistan are prepared
with the greatest care and do not go to areas involving objective hazards beyond
the limits of what can be controlled by ourselves, and by our local correspondents
and friends. It should be recalled that Terre Entière has never hesitated, regardless
of the cost to itself, to cancel its circuits whenever objective data from the field
have required such a decision. At some time in their history, countries such as
Spain, Italy, Israel, Lebanon, Mali, Cameroon, Algeria, Ethiopia and many others
have unfortunately had to be temporarily excluded from our list of destinations.
Iraq will be treated no differently. It is simply a question of common sense and
responsibility".
Hubert Debbasch
CEO
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