Pierre Simon, head of communications at Terre Entière,
interviews Hubert Debbasch, the company's CEO, about the creation of a subsidiary
in Iraq (date of the interview: 25 May 2009).
Pierre Simon: Hubert Debbasch, what does this creation of Babel Tours really mean?
Will Terre Entière now be setting up subsidiaries all round the world ?
Hubert Debbasch: Although Terre Entière has been growing and developing in recent
years, we do not intend to open a large number of subsidiaries: we have high-quality
correspondents in all the countries in which we organise tours. We are training
them to ensure that they understand what we want, but there is no question of creating
entities belonging to Terre Entière in each of these countries!
Pierre Simon: So is Iraq really such a special case? Is the creation of Babel Tours
a means of continuing to ensure a high profile for Terre Entière, as was the case
when you organised and accompanied the first tours to Iraq ?
Hubert Debbasch: No, the idea didn't come from there. We are proud and happy that
our commitment to Iraq was and still is a talking point for journalists and travellers
alike, but this commitment by ourselves was never for communication or publicity
reasons. The idea of setting up an agency in Iraq came from a simple observation:
when we were preparing the first tour, we were unable to find any local structure
able to offer us the logistics necessary to support this event and make it possible.
We therefore had to work with our friends in the country and explain to them what
we needed and what our requirements were. The quality of our discussions and the
initial fruits of this cooperation convinced us of the need to give this organisation
a more organised legal and structural format, so that we can look beyond the current
short-term projects.
Pierre Simon: When did this project take shape ? Did you encounter any major
security-related obstacles ?
Hubert Debbasch: The project came about in the final weeks before the first tour
set off (Ed. this was around Christmas 2008). I was out in the field seeing to the
final preparations for this unprecedented trip and a number of Iraqi friends were
devoting all their time to this project. They were working at home, using whatever
means were available, and were experiencing problems with travelling around and
in explaining what they were working on, particularly when dealing with hotel or
restaurant owners, site directors or museum curators. From my first trip to Iraq
onwards, my aim was not to score a media coup, I simply wanted to begin working
on improving the understanding of the land of Iraq and I knew that the task would
be a lengthy one. To guarantee the long-term future of the project, a local structure
had to be created. As for the security aspects, nobody can seriously claim that
Erbil is today a dangerous place. As far as we were concerned, there were no obstacles
to creating Babel Tours based on these criteria.
Pierre Simon: The news constantly reminds us of the risks involved in travelling
in a country at war. Is it really reasonable to take tourists to Iraq at present ?
Hubert Debbash: To compare Iraq as a whole with Afghanistan or Pakistan is to totally
misunderstand the current political situation. Even the Foreign Ministry, in its
travellers advice notices, recognises that the Iraqi province of Kurdistan is an
area in which travel is today possible. It is tempting to equate an entire country
with a war zone. This is the same type of reasoning that saw large numbers of tourists
boycotting France because of the reports of urban violence in the suburbs. The Americans
were convinced that the streets of Paris were running with blood! The job of a conscientious
travel agency is precisely, through its local knowledge, to identify those places
it is possible to visit with complete peace of mind, and those which should be avoided.
If we were to boycott Iraq because the problems have not been resolved everywhere,
we would be penalising a population impatient to welcome tourism and rightly proud
of the cultural heritage of its country.
Pierre Simon: The name chosen for the company, "Babel Tours", is not typically Kurdish.
Is there any particular meaning behind this choice? Does Babel Tours aim to propose
tours throughout Iraq ?
Hubert Debbasch: This choice was obviously an intentional one. Babel Tours is situated
in Iraqi Kurdistan, in Ankawa, near Erbil the provincial capital. I would like to
take this opportunity to thank all those, whether authorities or simple citizens,
who helped us to set up this enterprise in Kurdistan. As we pointed out when organising
our first tours to Iraq, Kurdistan was the natural first choice for a number of
reasons, owing to its status since 1991 (Ed: see our interview about tours to Iraq).
But Babel Tours has set itself the goal of organising tours throughout Iraq, depending
on how the situation evolves. The names of Babel and Babylon are highly symbolic.
Even the inhabitants of northern Iraq relate to the story of this tower, which is
known worldwide. I was in Babylon just a few weeks ago, and despite having been
seriously damaged by Saddam Hussein, but also by the American forces, this very
special place is visited by Iraqi schoolchildren so that they can learn about the
great moments of their history. Archaeologists and tourists will be discovering
its full meaning and its many riches for many years to come.
Pierre Simon: Speaking objectively and after your recent trips to Baghdad and the
rest of the country, do you think that it's reasonable to imagine tours throughout
Iraq ?
Hubert Debbasch: Certainly not! Our knowledge of the local situation and our local
teams who now provide us with the latest daily news, ensure that we do not see the
situation through rose-tinted glasses or get carried away by unbridled optimism.
There are differences between the regions of the country to which we go for research
and work purposes and those we actually offer for our tours. Barring a few exceptions,
the limits of our tours at present correspond to the boundaries of Iraqi Kurdistan.
However, the situation can evolve quickly: my recent visit to the archaeological
site of Ur and the links created with the regional authorities give me good reason
to hope that we will soon be proposing these places for visits by enthusiasts of
history and archaeology. Security conditions are constantly improving, accommodation
is both possible and indeed comfortable. We now have to settle certain administrative
questions to ensure that the authorities will grant the necessary tourist visas.
After recently spending a week in Baghdad, I feel that tours there are for the time
being neither possible nor desirable. Just imagine, there are still 4,000 checkpoints
inside the city!
Pierre Simon: Coming back to Babel Tours, does the creation of this company mean
that you have full-time employees. Are there any French staff locally ?
Hubert Debbasch: We have had premises since the beginning of 2009. The company itself
was officially set up a few weeks ago and on 11 May, Babel Tours received it's travel
agent's licence. At present there are three staff: the director, Rebwar Dawood,
who is a Chaldean Christian Kurd from Shaklawa. He is assisted by an Arab Christian
from Mosul, Ramiz Rahemo. The cultural adviser for Babel Tours is one of the country's
most highly renowned archaeologists. Her name is Narmen Ali. She's a Muslim from
Kirkuk. In this country, everyone states their religion. But unlike what one might
at first think, this religion is rarely a reason for disagreement, let alone conflict.
With Rebwar, Narmen and Ramiz, we have a fine team of professionals and I regularly
go out to visit and help train them. Certain members of the Terre Entière team are
involved in this training in the tourism profession, based on our own requirements.
The three staff are all very cultured and their academic studies, albeit apparently
unrelated to the profession, have prepared them well for their duties today.
Pierre Simon: Aren't you yourself a member of the team ? Don't you have to be
an Iraqi for that ?
Hubert Debbasch: As CEO of Babel Tours and of Terre Entière, the parent company,
I'm a member of the team. I now have a resident's permit enabling me to travel to
and stay in Iraq and I will stop at nothing to ensure that this commitment to the
land of Iraq and its people is a success.
Pierre Simon: Is Babel Tours economically viable ? The tourists don't seem to
be falling over themselves. So is this commitment an investment on the part of Terre
Entière or simply a philanthropic gesture?
Hubert Debbasch: A commitment and investment such as this cannot possibly hope to
be profitable in the short term. When I look at what was gained from the first tours,
even though they ran at a loss for Terre Entière, I'm already convinced that we
gained much. If we can enable those who wish to do so to discover the true face
of Iraq, if through these visits the local populations receive support and encouragement,
then I believe that we will have achieved our goal. But there's no question of stopping
there! We feel that the richness and diversity of Iraq's historical sites, and the
quality of the welcome from its people mean that this country is destined for a
more dignified future, following the terrible torments it has suffered. We are ready
to help with and support this rebirth.
Pierre Simon: Are you aiming for a French-speaking client base ?
Hubert Debbasch: Our aim is to enable all those who so wish to discover Iraq in
complete peace of mind and enjoyably, regardless of their origins and nationalities.
The Babel Tours website, like that of most tour operators worldwide, is in English.
We are not therefore specifically targeting one particular customer category. For
obvious reasons, French-speakers will be able to go through Terre Entière, but it
is the Babel Tours team which will be looking after each group and each traveller
locally.
Pierre Simon: Can you tell us who your first customers are ?
Hubert Debbasch: I will only mention the French customers. Our first customer is
Terre Entière! We also recently had the privilege of working with a French news
channel which was preparing a TV news documentary. We will however remain discrete
with regard to forthcoming cooperative ventures, but they are already looking promising.
Pierre Simon: When you launched the first tours to Iraq, you made no attempt to hide
your support for the country's Christians and the relations you were creating with
them. Is Babel Tours being set up in the same spirit ?
Hubert Debbasch: In the same spirit, certainly. The ties we have forged with our
Christian friends are continuing to grow. But they are not exclusive. The Christians
are a very small minority in the country and we do not choose our service providers
on the basis of their religion, but solely according to the quality of the service
they provide. Through tourism, we hope to help develop a healthy economy that will
benefit everyone. We will ensure that the religious minorities are never excluded
and will maintain excellent relations with the Muslim communities. That goes without
saying.
Pierre Simon: Is it hard to set up a company in Iraq ? What are the main obstacles
you had to overcome ?
Hubert Debbasch: Yes, it is hard to set up a company in Iraq! The main obstacles
are due to the fact that we are the first. There are also massive amounts of red
tape and we had to jump through a whole range of hoops. Without going into too much
detail, there are a multitude of intermediaries and varying degrees of pressure.
Pierre Simon: Could you be any more precise ?
Hubert Debbasch: Yes, I could be more precise. I can tell you that despite the frequent
doom-laden forecasts, Babel Tours is nonetheless up and running in Iraq, is now
a fully-fledged company in its own right, and is not subject to pressure from any
quarter. I won't try to tell you that it was easy, but our work has finally been
recognised. In my opinion, this is a highly encouraging sign for the future of Iraq.
Because it is possible to build a future free from threats and, let's not be afraid
of the word, from corruption, life will soon return !
Pierre Simon: What will Terre Entière be offering next for tourists in Iraq ?
Hubert Debbasch: Three cultural tours are programmed for the autumn and I'm pleased
to announce that we will be repeating the Christmas in Iraq experience. The tour
will be accompanied by Mrs Marie-Françoise Baslez, a historian well-known for her
research and publications on the early centuries of Christianity. We are also beginning
to receive our first orders for customised group tours to Iraq. The Babel Tours
team will certainly not be bored.
Liens vers d'autres pages du site de Terre Entière au sujet de l'Irak :
Le lancement des premiers voyages
en Irak : entretien et revue de presse
Programme : Irak : l'histoire oubliée - Voyages culturels
en 2009
Programme : Noël 2009 en Irak
Albums Photos :
Le Kurdistan - Noël 2008 en Irak
- Kirkouk, citadelle imprenable
- Ur, site archéologique
Retrouvez le reportage de France Info diffusé le 26 mai 2009 et intitulé «
Les touristes de l'extrême ». Pour les besoins du sujet, Hubert Debbasch était interrogé.
Il y revient sur l'esprit des voyages que Terre Entière propose au Kurdistan irakien
et sur la situation du pays.
Reportage : « Les touristes de l'extrême »
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